Kingdom People

June 16, 2007

John Piper on the Prosperity Gospel

Filed under: Quotes of the Week — Trevin Wax @ 4:32 am

Watch this. It’s well worth three minutes. Great Jars of Clay clip too!

22 Comments »

  1. [...] [HT:Kingdom People] Posted in Christendom, Theology. [...]

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  2. Oh boy, I don’t know what Piper is talking about, but if he thinks that God is not a provider of health, wealth (i. e., resources of all kinds that allow you to tithe, meet your needs, and help those around you), and a blessed life, then he has made an amazing blunder in his reading of the Bible. Our suffering and persecution comes at the hands of the devil and those in the world who are against Christ. God is not the author of poverty, misery, sickness, decay, and death. God is good. Period.

    There are those who abuse the Gospel to try to get fast cars and buy diamonds, but for Piper to come against those fine people who are bringing a message of hope and deliverance to the destitute in America and around the world — a message that is WORKING (of course, you have to believe in miracles too, which for some people is a theological problem) — that is irresponsible. I’m sad to see someone for whom I have a lot of respect make such a lousy argument against an important segment of the Church.

    Comment by Jared White — June 17, 2007 @ 4:11 pm

  3. Following up my previous comment…I spoke in haste and the heat of the moment, and for that I apologize. The Lord has shown me it was wrong to come against Piper in that manner and on your blog. If you want to delete the previous comment, please feel free.

    All the best, Jared

    Comment by Jared White — June 18, 2007 @ 12:20 pm

  4. Hi Jared,

    I believe that John Piper is correct to go after the “health, wealth and prosperity” gospel. This is not the gospel. It is a propped-up American parody that gives false hopes to millions of the world’s poor. The Gospel does not promise us earthly blessing or success. God may choose to grant it. He may choose not to. The Gospel is about the grace of God in Jesus Christ – manifested through Christ’s suffering on the cross and then his triumphant Resurrection.

    Christianity calls people to come and “die,” to take up their crosses of suffering, following in the way of the One who purchased our salvation, not our earthly riches.

    Comment by trevinwax — June 18, 2007 @ 2:42 pm

  5. Well, Trevin, I believe that’s a faulty interpretation of God’s will for His people, and I think the Gospel encompasses far more than a “get out of hell free” card. I think it encompasses creativity, resources, well-being, and every good thing that was made by God at the foundation of the world. To say that it is God’s will that we live in poverty, bondage, sickness, and oppression by the demonic powers — how is that Good News? John the Baptist proclaimed that the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand, and I think it truly is at hand for every believer. And there’s no poverty, sickness, and decay in the Kingdom of Heaven. The question is, do we have the faith it takes to see the world around us in the Spirit?

    Comment by Jared White — June 19, 2007 @ 11:06 am

  6. Many confuse passages depicting the consummation of God’s creation and the fulfillment of redemptive history in Christ’s millennial reign as passages that reflect the day to day living of believers in this sin tainted world. But perfection is not the current condition of Christendom, if it is then why are Christians suffering? Why is there sickness in the Church at all? If you say that this is because it is Satan attacking the Church, then you must say that for some reason Satan (in these given situations) is prevailing against the set redemptive historical plan which the Holy Spirit set forth in Scripture. Then you have the theological dualism of Open Theism. Truly there will be freedom from all sin and death and sickness – when Christ rules until every foe is vanquished… but every foe has not been vanquished. Sin and death still grip this world. The power of God has invaded this world… but complete triumph over these things (when they are cast into the lake of fire) is yet to come. This is the hope of the Gospel, set entirely upon a glorious Savior against the backdrop of a fully depraved, sin-cursed world. Nothing this world has or promises is as glorious as that.
    Jared, you are right in understanding that Salvation is ultimately not just spiritual, but a physical liberation from the degenerate world. But this is not the current reality… although we have a sure deposit of what is to come (the Holy Spirit) through whom we are brought to victory over sin, we are not promised financial blessings or even health in this present world.

    Comment by Asa Hart — June 19, 2007 @ 11:08 pm

  7. I think one quote would be helpful, although I still do not agree with him on his theology, Jim Bakker wrote a book after his prison experience entitled “Prosperity and the Coming Apocalypse.” I bought it for 50 cents. Part II is entitled “The Prosperity Message: a False Gospel” and is an incredible read… the rest of the book is insignificant. The quote comes from this section describing his spiritual journey in prison: “The more I studied the Bible, however, I had to admit that the prosperity message did not line up with the tenor of Scripture. My heart was crushed to think that I had led so many people astray. I was appalled that I could have been so wrong, and I was deeply grateful that God had not struck me dead as a false prophet!”

    Comment by Asa Hart — June 19, 2007 @ 11:23 pm

  8. Trevin, you are correct that we live in a sin-cursed world, and perfection is not to be attained in this life. However, I believe that a dangerous lack of faith in the Western church has kept many people in bondage who would otherwise be free if only they realized the blessings God has for them because of Jesus’ death on the cross. The notion that our physical reality is somehow irrevocably damaged and only our spiritual reality (and largely in the future) is where redemption lies for the Christian is more of a Greek philosophy than a Biblical (i. e., Hebrew) concept.

    Comment by Jared White — June 20, 2007 @ 11:47 am

  9. Jared,
    Piper is preaching about the travesty of the “prosperity gospel” taking the focus off of the reason Jesus Christ died and rose again…to save us from the wrath of God. If there are any blessings to be received from God besides that, then it is merely in addition to the grace already received. The reason we are here on earth is to win souls for Jesus Christ. Not to live comfortable lives enjoying our health, wealth, and prosperity! Blessings are not a legitimate draw card for Christianity but they may be a result. The only reason people should come to Jesus is for their sins to be forgiven. People who come to Jesus for any other reason will be false converts who turn away when the promised persecution, trouble, and pain comes around. If they come to Jesus to be forgiven of their sins, then they won’t care about the problems because they know that the best is yet to come. The error in the prosperity teaching is rooted in the whole concept of “faith”. Faith is a gift of God – the same as everything else. Lack of faith is not the reason the Western Church is in bondage. The only reason ANYONE in ANY church is in bondage is because they are NOT SAVED. The problem does not arise from not having enough faith, but any faith at all – which comes from hearing the Word of God. The call to repent and trust on God is not preached, people are told to “pray a prayer” and then are given false assurance of salvation and called Christians. People are not converted by God and God has not granted Faith as a result. There are many false gospels out there, not just this one. The Truth is that Jesus paid the price so you and I could go free. Period. Otherwise we would have to face the horrible wrath of God for our disobedience. Jesus was crushed for our iniquities – so we did not have to be crushed. God’s Justice was paid on the cross, and our salvation, resurrection, and victory was sealed by His resurrection from the dead! I say that we start preaching Christ and Him crucified and throw away this garbage that takes our eyes off the cross and causes us to focus on ourselves!

    Comment by Byron — June 23, 2007 @ 4:05 pm

  10. Amen.

    Comment by Michael M. — June 29, 2007 @ 11:30 pm

  11. I second that Amen!

    Comment by Jay Wingard — July 21, 2007 @ 8:04 am

  12. To emphasize that God is in the business to make sure that Christians are never sick, never having difficulties, never persecuted, never in want, etc., is an absolute denial of the Word of God and reflects one doesn’t read the scriptures carefully at all. All throughout the Word of God one can see God putting HIS people in places where they are harmed by the enemy, hungered by famine, sick by disease, and even brought to death physically with the enemies. God uses all things to discipline HIS people, cause them to grow in grace and sanctification by creating and allowing difficulties to come our way and eventually allowing us to die by disease or by martyrdom, etc.! After having a great challenge you can also see God bringing great physical blessings. Just look at Job! Torn apart, physically and economically and emotionally – and in that state if he were alive today, you would his evangelical friends saying things like his friends did to him. They would be wrong! God doesn’t always keep a Saint in wealth, health and prosperity. But, HE will bring us out of the situations as we look to Him and after He has taught us what He wishes to teach us! Then we may have even more physically than we had before and grow more spiritually also if we learned from Him! Jesus our Lord did not even have a place to lay His head and He was God on earth in the flesh! Paul suffered many things during his life but He was rich in the Lord and God provided him with all he needed. It is absolutely wrong to tell people they will not get sick, be under economic constraints at times, and be prosperous all the time. Just not so! God does many things in many different manners to teach us, strengthen us, warn us, chastise us, etc., during our time as Saints on earth! We have a mixed bag of things all throughout life! It is damaging greatly to promise folks wrong things and it harms them spiritually! God allows Satan many times to strike us for various reasons but yes, we do have the weapons to put on and use to overcome him and give all Glory to God, but the difficulty took place! Not because of personal sin (it could be though for that) but because God uses all things in our sanctification process throughout life! John Piper is right! Man’s opinions are wrong as Job’s friends are good examples of the criticizers of this hour!

    Comment by Lamar Carnes — July 23, 2007 @ 4:34 pm

  13. I definitely have to say that the gospel today has become a needs-driven gospel and the needs are fabricated as are the solutions. And in the end, we are left with a peverted impotent gospel that is not biblical, nor is it saving.

    What the contemporary ‘church’ does (and you will understand my use of the quotes) is try to identify a need within their target group, much like secular marketing, and address that need. And what happens when the truth of the gospel is neglected is that these needs are not the needs that Christ came to meet.

    This is what the prosperity gospel does.

    It appeals to people’s utilitarian needs. Their lack of finances. Their lack of “enjoyment of life”. The lack of fulfilling relationships. Their “hole in their heart”. Or even a ticket into heaven a ‘great place’. Or the ticket out of hell, a terrible place. Now granted a saving relationship with Jesus WILL meet these needs but that is not what Christ came for. Jesus came not to call the righteous but SINNERS to repentance. And what happens when you take the gospel and twist it into a solution for a ‘better’ life in this life, which may come, you circumvent the most vital work in the gospel:

    The conviction of the Holy Spirit, of sin, which leads people to repentance, which results in the new birth. Conversion. A miracle. And of the sovereign work of God.

    Everyone wants to go to heaven. Not everyone wants to meet a Holy God there.

    And this is what happens when people come to Jesus as a utlitarian saviour to get what they want. This is what not only the propsperity gospel does, but every other seeker-friendly gospel does that baits it with the “abundant life” yet does not preach the holiness of God and the sinfullness of man.

    But those that come to a true saving faith will come to the same spirit as Paul when he says that he counts ALL THINGS as RUBBISH / excrement in comparison to knowing Jesus Christ. In fact, John writes that if anyone loves the world, the love of the father is NOT IN HIM.

    If someone has come to Christ for that kind of gain, there are likely to never have met the holy God, never been spiritually rebirthed, and hence may enjoy an abundant life on this earth and lose their souls.

    The prosperity gospel, as with all other non-biblical humanistic gospels, is snake oil. And not only is it impotent, but it vaccinates. It offers false assurance and false security. It deceives. It is deadly.

    Comment by M — August 20, 2007 @ 1:40 am

  14. “My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge.”
    Hosea 4:6 “People without discernment are doomed.” Hosea 4:14b We are told to hate evil-and the prosperity gospel is EVIL. It is idolatrous heresy. The belly preachers are bent on pulling the eyes of lost sheep away from Christ Jesus-on turning these lost sheep into goats who focus on and praise gifts instead of the Giver. But all true believers, take heart-the Lord promised to seperate his sheep from these goats. The goats in the church in Laodocea will not hear the Lord knocking, nor would they answer His call to come out, but His sheep know His voice and will come out to praise and worship Him. Come, Lord Jesus, come! When they had pasture, they became satisfied; they were satisfied, and their hearts became proud. Therefore they forgot Me. So I will be like a lion to them…Hosea 13:6,7 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God! Hebrews 10:31 Your life should be free from the love of money. Be satisfied with what you have, for He Himself has said, I will never leave you or forsake you. Hebrews 13:5 Let us then go to Him outside the camp bearing His disgrace. For here we do not have an enduring city; instead we seek the one to come. Hebrews 13:13,14

    Comment by Darren Talley — August 28, 2007 @ 9:56 pm

  15. [...] Post this Week at Kingdom People: John Piper on the Prosperity Gospel Explore posts in the same categories: In the [...]

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  16. Woe to the rich, Christ

    Comment by Jason — September 23, 2007 @ 7:07 am

  17. The prosperity gospel SADDENS me!!!

    That Jesus, the greatest treasure of my life, has been replace by a BMW!

    Say it is not so!

    (it brings tears to my eyes…)

    How does the prosperity gospel fit in with these words by Isaac Watts?

    When I survey the wondrous cross
    On which the Prince of glory died,
    My richest gain I count but loss
    And pour contempt on all my pride.

    Forbid it Lord, that I should boast
    Save in the death of Christ, my God;
    All the vain things that charm me most
    I sacrifice them to His blood.

    See from His head, His hands, His feet,
    Sorrow and love flow mingled down;
    Did e’er such love and sorrow meet,
    Or thorns compose so rich a crown?

    Were the whole realm of nature mine,
    That were a present far too small;
    Love so amazing, so divine,
    Demands my soul, my life, my all.

    Comment by David — November 12, 2007 @ 11:10 pm

  18. There is a little abuse in almost everything. The enemy’s main job is to steal, kill,and destroy. Jesus said that he comes to give life and life more abundantly. Some leaders have not used the prosperity message to promote the things of God, but for the promotion of themselves and their pockets. Some,on the other hand have honestly tried to explain to people that it is not glorifying God to live in poverty. We do understand that everyone will not be rich and overflowing with material things. The kingdome of heaven is not defined by material possessions. Some people are in poverty because of their ignorance. Some are in poverty because they simply don’t know that that is not God’s best for their lives. That is why people need to read the word of God for themselves and study to show themselves approved approved unto God. a workman that need not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Comment by Sheryl — July 15, 2008 @ 2:58 pm

  19. Jesus did not mean he would give us life more abundantly in a sense of material possessions. He promises us satisfaction in Him. God’s “best” for our lives, is not related to our financial situation at all. This is a message western culture has taught us. God wants us to be “happy”, and therefore he would obviously want us to be wealthy. Not so.

    Comment by Weston — August 1, 2008 @ 9:06 am

  20. First of all I wish more believers would dialogue about this important issue. I have studied the prosperity gospel for many years and it has sickened me to no end. I have a number of friends who are deceived by this gospel and my heart breaks for them. It is a perversion of truth and is no gospel at all…”But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!” Gal. 1:8
    Let me take this a step farther. We are in danger anytime we use the gospel as a solution for issues such as finances, political postering, building better marriages, parenting, career issues, etc. The primary focus of the gospel is not to make you a better American with a nice family and a stable career. The heart of the gospel is to reconcile sinful man to a Holy God!!! Christianity in this land is starting to look a lot like the American Dream instead of the Biblical Jesus. Christians in this land are becoming known more for their political stand and the size of their bank account than they are for their love for one another. It is time that we get back to true Biblical discipleship and purge ourselves of anything that takes our focus off of the Lord Jesus Christ. This includes the “good” things this life has to offer us. If we continue on this path, we will eventually become “good for nothing.” Don’t take my word for it, read Luke 14:15-35.

    Comment by Craig — August 4, 2008 @ 10:51 pm

  21. When God’s children do not prosper, they do not witness effectively, they witness for less time, they are unable to create a Heaven like culture here on Earth. Which is the poor being fed, the naked being clothed, love abounding(forgiveness patience so on and so forth) Zoe is a God like life, and this life in abundance, poverty? I think not! Everyone driving Rolls Royces, that’s up to you personally, as long as the Kingdom is your priority. Your rolls or your diamonds, don’t determine your financial prosperity.We can go back to the rich young ruler, his riches were not the Lord’s, and their are many who are rich but not rich from Kingdom living, rather rich from world living, do not be deceived and do not be concerned, remember to never covet.

    God wishes that you will submit to Him in every aspect, and once you lose your life(submit it to him completely), He will give you life, a life in abundance. You see God wants to know that every aspect of your life is in submission to God’s authority, family, money, relationships, recreation, tithes and offering, as well as prayer and fasting. It’s important that you don’t judge a persons prosperity based on the clothes they wear or lifestyle they live.

    Rich people wear nice clothes, so do some poor people, and vica versa. Lets never get it twisted, poverty is by no means what God has for His children, but many are ignorant to the word, that doesn’t mean their going to Hell, it just means their silly, their not grabbing their inheritance. Prosperity is based on following God’s will in its entirety, then He will give you riches and honor for your household, once you take care of Kingdom business, if you want to shop at Barneys or Target that is up to you, one is not better then the other!

    Believe that children of God drive Bentley’s, and some drive Toyota’s, this a personal choice, based on what they prefer. God’s will is that every single person has wealth and riches in their home, so they can effectively do His will, but their clothes and homes do not determine their prosperity. Some choose to live a very quiet life, whilst some choose to live a not so quiet life. God is not interested in their outward appearance, but rather their hearts and stewardship, and faithfulness to His Kingdom. Its a misconception with prosperity that you’ll be dripping in diamonds, with everything designer, this is not true. What you wear and what you drive is based off your own personal preference, children of God shouldn’t worry on these things.

    Claim your covenant prosperity, enjoy freedom from the grips of debt and financial distress, which is bondage. It is God’s will that you free yourself from all kinds of bondage, only then will you effectively witness. What you wear does not determine your prosperity, but for all who do His will and understand His word, He will prosper them .

    One should not seek prosperity to fill His house with spoils, a bunch of luxury automobiles, a bunch of jewelery, that is the road to many hurts. Don’t be eager to be anything, but seek God’s Kingdom first, and His promises have been allocated to His Kingdom Kids. So start seeking God’s Kingdom, and remember he is just o fulfill His word, He desires you live the abundant life he created for you. Get familiar with God’s scriptures on your life He intended for you.

    Comment by Sidney Davy — October 28, 2008 @ 4:55 pm

  22. I have long been troubled over this issue!

    The Bible speaks to the rich and the poor. God is not for or against riches (except when you love money) but wants us to be rich unto Him. The problem is that we are majoring on the minors and minoring on the majors.

    Paul had something to say that helps us understand this issue.
    Phi;ippians 4
    12I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13I can do everything through him who gives me strength.

    Paul experienced both and learned contentment and we to should come to this true balance.
    prosperity is not a gospel it is just a spin off of Seeking First Gods Kingdom and all these things shall be added unto you.
    Jesus said that.
    Kingdom seeking and rightousness is what we should be thinking and doing not preaching prosper or don’t prosper.
    Preach Christ crucified.
    PREACH CHRIST !!!!!!
    And be content in each and every situation when you are rich poor and every thing in between. Christ is the Center not our comfort.

    Listen to Paul and maybe put our leaders into this

    Philippians 4
    2I plead with Euodia and I plead with Syntyche to agree with each other in the Lord.

    Philippians 3
    7But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. 10I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

    Paul was a very religouse man but He counted it all rubish.
    Even if prosperity is true it would be nothing compared to knowing Christ. He is the true riches. In heaven what we call riches is cement.
    Gold !!! The streets of Gold!
    Laodicia thought she was rich and in need of nothing. Could this be us?
    Think about it
    God Bless

    Comment by Leah — December 19, 2008 @ 7:18 pm


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