Almost two months ago, I posted an article entitled “How ‘Saving Bellevue’ is Destroying Bellevue,” in which I decried the slander and gossip found on the SavingBellevue website. People continue to leave comments on that thread, many supporting the point of my article and others challenging my viewpoint.
One question has come up several times in the comment section, both from those who support the Bellevue site and those who disagree with the methods taken. “What should we do?” This comment from “Debbie” sums it up best.
What would you suggest someone should do if they are ever faced with this problem in their own Church? I think this is the best question of the Blog and really the next point of value after dealing with both sides of the “Saving Bellevue” site issue.
I understand the deep desire of getting the truth out to people in your church, when the church has taken a left turn that you either perceive as unscriptural or really is unscriptural. You want the truth known and the church you love protected from the guaranteed attack from the evil one (who would love to destroy a church), or from the wrath of God as he chastens his shepherds for deceiving or harming His sheep.
We could all agree that the people in Bellevue went to leadership and weren’t heard. Let’s assume that was true. The question is then, what is the next right thing to do? I’ll assume a lot of prayer went into the decisions made – even those to create the website, must have taken prayer. So I’m not arguing about the site topic, but I do want to discuss what God would want us to do.
So again, what would you suggest someone should do if they are ever faced with genuine deception problems or other severe sins within the leadership in their own Church? Would you make this a new topic for discussion?
Well, here’s a new topic for discussion. What should one do if at odds with the leadership of a church? Leave? Stay and fight? Compromise? Ruin the pastor’s reputation?
I think that the question Debbie poses is a question that many people have asked themselves: “Should I leave?” “Should I stay and fight for what I believe is right?” “Is it okay to leave the body?” “Does God want me to stay and simply endure this for the sake of the body?” “What is the right thing to do in this situation?” In my experience, these questions seemed to be asked mostly during times of new leadership. And many times, these questions are asked by people who truly are seeking God’s will and His presence in their lives. I believe that there is something truly special about a local body of believers, and I believe that that is what makes it so hard to know when it is best to leave or when it is best to stay. I don’t have the answers to the above questions, but I am eager to read the comments on this thread.
Comment by David — March 27, 2007 @ 2:49 pm
I would pray for guidance. I believe that he answers our prayers. If I felt that the leadership of the church was corrupt I would leave. There is nothing wrong with confronting and challenging the leadership, but if you are a minority, move on. I am a member at Bellevue and the overwhelming majority support this pastor and the leadership. Are we all wrong? The Lord knows and he is in control. I ache for those that have formed the website. I am not sure of their next move, but Bellevue is strong. We gained over 1500 members last year even with the media attention and speculation. I believe that I would worry more if Satan was NOT attacking the church! I say trust in the Lord to handle corrupt leadership. I know from experience that the Lord will not allow corrupt pastors to stay in place. I am at peace with this knowledge as I stand behind Steve Gaines and his leadership!
Comment by Patricia — March 29, 2007 @ 5:27 pm
The Lord Bless You, my brother Trevin! I appreciate your comments as I took the time to read all the responses on your previous article. Oh my, how angry and hurt people are all too eager to ignore the words which urge them to walk in the Spirit!! Moreover, they are often hostile toward them! Bitterness does not rear its ugly head when one is walking in the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23; Hebrews 12:15). Reacting from such a predisposition is always wrong, and, as we see in the Hebrews passage, will ravage the Body of Christ.
As Patricia mentioned above, it is the responsibility of the believer to pray over the situation… never to react in bitterness. Prayers must be petitioning God for humility and meekness of spirit and an overall change of heart. Having prayed and fasted, if you reassess the situation without bitterness in your heart, and the church is still erring against Scripture (and not against your own conveniently concocted doctrine), then leave the church. Who can liberate us from the bitterness within our own hearts from all the scars which this life promises (and certainly Brother Gaines is facing)? If not Jesus Christ, then what is our boast to the world? This is not an attack upon a leader, but an attack upon the Gospel. Could it be that in our self-proclaimed hunger for truth, our own depravity seeps through as we lash out at our leaders with anger? I was reading Andrew Fuller recently and in a letter to his daughter he wrote something that I found to be quite true about myself, “Dear child, you are far more sinful than you realize.”
Given the previous article and responses, I imagine that my post here will generate a few angered responses. I only hope that they have consulted the Spirit of God (“Is this true of me?”) before they angrily react, nonetheless, I suspect that they will not. If I am wrong in my comments, God help me.
Comment by Asa Hart — March 29, 2007 @ 8:28 pm
Have you ever noticed a Doberman walking down the street and a couple of small dogs yapping at his heels? Occasionally, he might stop and look back at them but he will just keep on going about his business. I applaud the leadership of Bellevue for doing what God has called them to do. Sure, if you are doing God’s work, you are going to have those yapping at your heels but the real man of God just goes about the business God has called him to do. It will all come out at the judgment seat of Christ. In the meantime…Praise God Anyhow! ! !
Comment by arejaymack — April 6, 2007 @ 4:36 pm
I wasn’t trying to continue the discussion on Bellevue, because we’ve heard about it from many angles, but I am still trying to understand what approaches others have taken in the past when faced with a serious leadership problem in your church.
My own church was a medium size Midwestern church. We did pray, study God’s word and meet with elders and pastoral staff. We took a few years to face the problem and then to understand it. It was very painful to leave, but we felt we would be wrong to stay. We did the Matt 18 road and then left.
Unfortunately a large growing church does not prove God is at work, just look at the big celebrity churches like Joel Olsteen’s or some of the “name it and claim it” churches. Size does not equal spiritual or scriptural health. It just means Satan can help fool a lot of people at the same place and time.
Unfortunately Satan will always attack the good and even bad churches. When a small group of men, that are only accountable to each other, grow a church into a “mega” business, something has to give and the temptation to become bigger and better can lead the best men into grave temptations. It happens.
If you were to find your church going off into the church growth movement at any price, or deceiving the sheep financially, or hiding major leadership sins, or practicing abusive employment practices, or whatever serious path that takes away from God’s glorification, what would you do?
For us a website was too scary a place to go. I feel it’s God’s church to control and His choice to divulge the truth in His timing. Our prayer is that our former church will get right with God before Satan makes the sin public. Either way the truth always comes out over time in God’s plan.
Comment by Debbie — April 9, 2007 @ 5:16 pm
Patricia said:
“We gained over 1500 members last year even with the media attention and speculation.” —-
Check back to Bellevue and find that even these numbers were lies as it was more like 1200+ . And where are all these new members and pro-Gaines people. The sanctuary is very sparsely populated —-
Patricia Said:
“If I felt that the leadership of the church was corrupt I would leave. ” —-
Oh great, your a member there for a life time and raised your family there and because a corrupt preacher arrives, you say leave. Sort of like when a parent remarries and the step says ” This is the way its going to be, you can leave if you don’t like it”
Patricia Said: “I know from experience that the Lord will not allow corrupt pastors to stay in place. I am at peace with this knowledge as I stand behind Steve Gaines and his leadership!” —-
So you have already declared Steve innocent enough to stand behind him, you wouldn’t know a corrupt pastor if you saw one. You’d be like those who followed Jim Jones. Here in Memphis, it took the FBI to bring down the corrupt politicians who were followed blindly by their constituents. Who or what can you do when a corrupt pastor arrives until the government arrives like they did for Jim Baker. Remember, “when you see a man beat his mule , stay far a way’s , as you won’t know who’d be next”. —-
Now Steve is passing “his” way of ruining a church, with a new book “When Steve Comes to Church” , Oh, I think they replaced the word “Steve” with the word “God” to sell books, $$$$$$$$$.
Comment by Saul — April 28, 2007 @ 9:19 pm
Saul,
I will pray for you. You are a very angry, sick person. I will pray that your wounds will be healed. You do not know me or my background. If you want people to listen then stop attacking and judging. If you are not ACTING like spirit filled christians, how are we supposed to believe you? You attack me with words because I don’t agree with you. Why are you still attending a church where you hate the members and the leadership. Is that the right thing to do? You and your supporters do not act like saved people. THAT is what most of us see.
Comment by Patricia — May 8, 2007 @ 9:56 am
Saul,
I just checked the website today and I am very sad about your deep hurt. We continue to pray for all the huting people involved in churches with difficult issues.
I’d like us to disucss the bigger picture though, and come to terms with what should be the next right thing to do when faced with church changes that deeply hurt us or go against what we believe is right.
Thanks to all of you for your input and keep this in prayer.
Comment by Debbie — May 14, 2007 @ 4:49 pm
You are right, Debbie. I have many close friends that are still deeply hurt by this. I have been affected to the point that I may leave even though I trust the leadership. I think that we should all be praying for our churches.
Saul, I will truly be praying for you. I truly ache for those that have left and those that do not want to leave the church that they have grown up in. I also truly believe that if we trust in the Lord…the truth will be revealed. I will not check this again.
My prayers will be with all of you.
God bless,
Patricia
Comment by Patricia — May 20, 2007 @ 9:55 pm
Trevin, I just now found your articles on the “Savaging Bellevue” phenomenon, and your observations are prescient. You’ve seen but a sample of the bile that unfortunately passes from those who are invested in the failure of both Pastor Gaines and Bellevue Baptist Church as a whole.
There’s an anti-Bellevue cottage industry now, and it’s spent the better part of a year publishing things on the Internet (largely in secret) they’d be ashamed to say in public. Unless, of course, there’s some perceived mileage to be gotten from being a contrarian.
Please continue to pray for Pastor Gaines, and for Bellevue.
–Mike
Comment by Mike Bratton — June 19, 2007 @ 10:34 pm
I have been praying for Bellevue during this time. I am amazed at the reactions to these two Bellevue posts. It is a sad day for the Christian church when the internet is used as a weapon to discredit and defame God’s people.
Comment by trevinwax — June 20, 2007 @ 5:40 am
I’m a Bellevue member for over 20 years. I love Bellevue, a flock of God’s precious saints, who are being devastated by the destruction of the body. I grieve real tears as I think of the many sheep getting pulled away, wandering, getting out of fellowship, and becoming easy prey for the enemy.
Will there be any leadership if things continue as they are going? Who cares for the sheep? How will we rebuild if everyone leaves? Does God want Bellevue to reach the world? Can we have revival inspite of issues in leadership? We know God can handle those problems if we pray for His will to be done. Is God in charge of those in leadership? Has Pastor Gaines disqualified himself in ministry? Where is the SBC’s responsibility in monitoring those in ministry? What is the real truth? Things seem so one-sided. It would be nice if someone could clarify things objectively.
The conflict for me is my commitment to the body of Christ at Bellevue. This seems to be a longstanding issue. Commitment to each other as part of a body is not a popular idea due to the our cultural shifts within our church. Most are not interested in close fellowship anymore where people actually fervently pray for each other and spend time together on an ongoing basis. There is little time for our families much less time for our church. Thus, the flock is easily scattered in times of trial with little love or commitment to hold them together. Thankfully, Christ brings unity among all brethren through His Spirit and there is hope of finding fellowship wherever he places us.
Comment by Jak — July 1, 2007 @ 4:58 pm
I’ve been through ugly church situations more than once. Here are some thoughts:
1. It’s the Lord’s church, not my church. Neither a pastor nor a member nor a group of members has a right to try to destroy it.
2. Elders who sin are to be confronted publicly. However, the goal still should be restoration of the one who sinned, not destruction.
3. Many disagreements are about things that are not worth dying for: Are the sermons too deep? Too shallow? The music too dated? Too contemporary? Is the leadership style top-down or bottom-up? Does the pastor speak in tongues or oppose speaking in tongues?
4. I may need to leave over such a not-worth-dying-for issue, especially if the issue is more important to me than it is to the Lord.
5. I need to leave a church if my presence there is no longer glorifying God. If I can no longer worship during the worship services, or if my presence keeps others from worshiping and growing, I should leave. Note that this means there can be a time when I should leave, but others should stay.
6. If I cannot look on my church’s leaders with love, there may or may not be a problem in their hearts, but there’s a big problem in mine.
7. There’s a difference between leadership that’s merely unwise or insensitive or doctrinally deficient, and leadership that is actively, intentionally leading people away from trusting in Jesus Christ.
8. Pastors seem to be a special target of the enemy. They need lots of prayer support from their people.
9. If I leave my church, I should not just abandon church. I should find my way to another healthy fellowship if possible. If there is not one, I should start one, but not a fellowship full of bitter ex-members of the other church. The purpose of the church should be to glorify the Lord, not to save ourselves from the other church.
10. If the Lord is telling me to leave my church, he has a good plan for what I’m to do next.
I pray that one or more of these thoughts will help someone else.
Comment by Jim Swindle — July 3, 2007 @ 11:42 am
I have been through something similar to Bellevue on a smaller scale. New pastor, new music, lies, study books instead of the Word, new bylaws, change bylaws to make it nearly impossible to vote the pastor out, lies, gives the staff unlimited control over funds, make church democratic business meetings rare, lies, makes himself unavailable, announcing building program when the elders are unaware of it and the debt is staggering, lies about the attendance (almost doubles the numbers), hand selects elders that were “yes” men or for their influence and community standing (ie: a lawyer who had an affair with a church member and left his wife the week after the pastor presented him to the church) rather than godly men, lies, inviting the known church-splitter, Gary Folds, to hold a revival, and on and on. When these kinds of things happen very fast, in an already vibrant growing church, what can you do to stop it or slow it down if the leadership will listen or try to resolve issues?
No pastor, in his right mind, would make these kinds of changes in a short period, especially if he was following a dearly beloved proven pastor. He would introduce major changes slowly and delicately and win the church over before he ram-rods his desires on the church.
My husband was an elder and I was the church secretary. I had been a pastors wife for 10 years and was not unfamiliar with church politics. I tried to keep an open mind. There comes a time with something’s got to give. When you realize that the pastor, not God, is controlling and manipulating the church. I have noticed that many church members do not think, they feel. They don’t care how or what is happening as long as they feel good and everybody plays nice together. Peace at all cost.
My husband and I eventually left the church and because he did not want to be lied about when we left, he insisted that he be allowed, as an elder, to address the church as to why he was resigning. The pastor said, no, but the other elders over-rode him. My husband just said that he and the pastor had major irreconcilable differences concerning church.
On a personal friendly level, the pastor and I got along fine, but I did see the manipulation and desire for control and to completely overhaul something that was not broken. Apparently, many others saw it too, because within a short period, the church had nearly completely turned it’s membership. As many were coming in as were leaving. The ones coming in were from non-denominational/charasmatic type churches, because of our great new praise team and band, not Baptists or new converts.
A couple of years later, that pastor finally left after he brought on an associate that he knew would be made pastor when he left (control again). Within a year or two, the “Baptist” church, was having “words of knowledge” from the pulpit, healing services and so much more. That new pastor recently was asked to leave, but the damage to the once Baptist church had already been done.
Should we, and the others that left one-by-one (no one left as a group) have stayed? Should we have fought for accountability to the church or is a pastor and island? We could not stay and sit back and say nothing. The pastor and some of the elders (yes, they had elders in that church that served like normal Baptist deacons plus administrative and fiscal responsibilities) would listen to the complaints, but they were “pastor’s men.” He could do nothing wrong, but if he did, they were trusting God, anyway. They trusted him right into losing the Baptist heritage of the church.
I have the same question Debbie has. What is the right thing to do? I believe Bellevue’s situation is just the beginning of many churches that will be going through this. Actually, I read that Germantown Baptist (A suburb of Memphis) went through something similar, with a different outcome. Much prayer seeking God’s will went into all of these situations.
I read the SavingBellevue site a while back. I was saddened by it. I understand why they were compelled to do something, if the leadership of the church would not help in resolving the problems. I think the pastor and leadership of Bellevue and any church that these things happen to are just as guilty as the sponsors of a website that is trying to inform the congregation.
Who really is destroying the church? It’s hard to say. What is a body to do if it happens in their church? Cut and run? We did, but many times we wish we had stayed. Maybe we could have started a website!
Just kidding about the website.
Comment by Liz — July 23, 2007 @ 2:50 am
Sorry about all the typos. I really should proof read.
Comment by Liz — July 23, 2007 @ 2:55 am
I think the anyone who hasn’t visited savingbellevue.com recently should stop by and see how this disturbed man is attacking his new church. GBC is in a very bad way, and this disruption could very well destroy it.
It seems Jim Haywood has found a third option if you aren’t happy in your church: destroy it.
Comment by Keith — August 1, 2007 @ 9:12 am
The background of the purpose statement for savingbellevue.com says:
“…the only practical remaining way to complete the instructions of Matthew 18 in taking the issue before the church body was to create this website…By failing to allow the dispute to be directly addressed through the full deacon body of the church, the leadership of Bellevue Baptist Church has caused the dispute to be addressed in a broader public domain. We regret the consequences of their actions.
”
I don’t find this to be a good reason to make a BBC family matter a world-wide web matter. If the deacons won’t allow the issue to be brought to their attention, present your case in the business meeting as new or miscellaneous business…meet with other members…get a coalition to confront the pastor…with reverance and respect, of course…not with the intent to divide. He personally confronted those who were “at fault.” He then took two witnesses. The next step is to take it to the church…not the world wide web.
Let be clear. No one can argue with wanting integrity from church leadership, or from any church member, for that matter. If the leadership of BBC is in the wrong, that needs to be addressed. However, there is a fine line between accountability and just plain mean-spiritedness. The truth is the truth, but the truth is to be spoken in love…not with bitterness, strife, envy, and rancor. That goes for all of us.
Furthermore, The GBC postings are simply going overboard. Posting information without the church’s consent? Come on! God wants men of integrity in the pulpit, but he doesn’t need Jim’s help. And the world doesn’t necessarily need to know…GBC can sort this out on it’s own. It makes a mockery of GBC, it makes a mockery of the SBC. I would suggest everyone read the correspondence from Chuck Hannaford on the savingbellevue.com site. It’s very illuminating.
http://www.savingbellevue.com/Thomas/chuck_hanniford_emails.htm
Comment by Tony P. — August 2, 2007 @ 9:38 pm
There is a HUGE point I believe that is being left out by all involved, and there are more than 2 sides…Brother Steve has CHANGED so much in a year. Something such as blackmail or a mood disorder, maybe medication reaction is going on. I BELIEVE this with ALL MY HEART, since, he IS a man of GOD, he was lead by God to spread HIS WORD and Begged by BELLEVUE to become our pastor…these are clearly dark times for him. But–the reason the BLOGGERS have so much DIRT, is his impulsivness & obvious lack of self control. I think if he could get a handle on whatever is making him so careless, he is brilliant enough to “fix this..”I still love him, but, the “dirt” is there for the taking, it is sad.
Comment by Melanie — August 17, 2007 @ 8:51 am
I am not christian. You are all great examples for Christ!! Now they are taking down another church. Keep up the good work…you are very entertaining. I bet you are all Replicans who think that you are America’s moral authority!
Comment by Krista — August 19, 2007 @ 10:10 pm
[...] (See another post on this subject here.) [...]
Pingback by How “Saving Bellevue” is Destroying Bellevue « Kingdom People — August 24, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
Greetings from Australia to all at Bellevue, Memphis. I have been reading with interest the situation that has unfolded at this church. I am strangely comforted through knowing that I am not alone in my current experiences in church life. I feel that it is indeed regrettable that someone resorts to a website to state their case ; but I think that it is entirely understandable and done from a crippling state of frustration and disappointment. It is wrong for the leadership of a church to ignore and refuse to communicate and answer the questions of the congregation over important issues that impinge on the very integrity and fitness of that same leadership and that church.
In my opinion, I think that it is wrong for believers in a church congregation to sit back and allow things that are unBiblical to go unchecked. All believers, in scriptural examples, were supposed to hold fast to the truth that had been revealed to them, defend it, and teach it. There are numerous examples of religious corruption being confronted by God’s people from cover to cover in the Bible. A mentality seems to be apparent nowadays in people who become Pastors, that they believe that their leadership ” makes ” the body of Christ. When, in fact, it is the people with their manifold giftings, drawn by God Himself, that makes the body of Christ. These Pastors seem to have lost sight of humility and respect for a church that is already established, that they are contracted to use their gifting in, as employees – regardless of how they want to twist this reality.
The churches of the Apostolic NT example were governed by Elders from that LOCAL COMMUNITY. Not a contracted outsider ! The leadership of a local church was a PLURALITY of local Elders, not one individual, or an ELITIST FACTION, that manouvred to supplant that local Eldership. The Elders from a particular church were the perfect representatives as they were citizens of that local community and lived and breathed the ethos of that church community. Rebellious Pastors do not have a scriptural leg to stand on, as their is no example of a Pastor being deliberately contracted from another community ! The Apostle Paul whilst on his journeys was also self-employed so as not to be a burden on a local church. Taking this into consideration, it defies common sense and good manners to think that you could sweep in as a contracted employee, and sidestep the local Elders and their governance over that church. Your gifting as a Pastor is supposed to be used WITH a church community for their benefit. Not used IN SPITE OF a church community AGAINST THEIR WISHES. A contracted Pastor from outside of a church community has a responsibility to ESTABLISH A STRONG LOCAL LEADERSHIP if there isn’t one already there. NOT SUPPLANT LOCAL LEADERSHIP.
The experience that I have had at my hometown church sounds remarkably similar to that of Liz. The new Pastor split the church by allowing people who were in immoral relationships to be involved in ministry positions. Anyone with discernment was quietly ignored and put where they could not influence anything. He then convinced two of the Elders to change the church constitution and do away with the Board. This left a situation where he automatically became an Elder. So when the other Elders died, retired, or left town, he had singlehanded control and final veto over everything. Including selecting new Elders, which he made sure were people who were poorly educated, unavailable, tired, and compliant with his twisted views. Which include ; Refusing to preach against heresy, sin, and rebellion, inviting heretics to preach in the church, holding secret meetings against people, favouritism ( leading to people of money and influence being given authority, instead of people of gifting and Godliness ) , having no formal Ministry training ( !!! ), keeping secrets whilst demanding openness from the rest of us, refusing to hold Deacons accountable for misconduct, and encouraging the Elders ( including himself ) to abdicate their prime responsibilities to the congregation, leading them to actually be constitutionally unfit to lead the church. This situation has resulted in devastating hurt, frustration, and damage to individuals and the church and the reputation of the church. A church that was once prominent and large in the town, had now been reduced to a small social club for the back-slapping elite.
It is difficult to not grasp at any means with which to gain the voice to which we are entitled to speak with. It is difficult to refrain from waging a loud and strident campaign against a regime that values God-given gifts and the people to which the gifts have been given at NOTHING in their sight. Pastors who do this are rejecting a part of the Body of Christ and in so doing are also rejecting the working of the Holy Spirit ! A church that gets into this state will not prosper in the Lord and meet its divine calling in the way that it should.
In my experience, it is something that I think is wrong, however, when people who are upset with what is happening in their church decide to simply leave. A strong group of dissenters must use all means available within the church’s constitution to guard against corruption. Their very presence is vital, in confronting those who would hijack and damage a church. To simply give up and scatter is not going to help anyone. People must unite into a strong ” political ” faction, and act through loving and God-honouring conduct as an example to all others.
Ultimately, I don’t think that starting up a website to voice your concerns ( no matter how reasonable or accurate it may be ) is going to do anything great towards resolving problems. An email campaign sounds ok to me, to be honest and informing within the church family. I think that once a united group of concerned people have done all that is sound, respectful, and proper, to rectify something that they feel is wrong and it comes to no gain, then they should consider gathering up everyone of like mind and start caring for them according to their own conscience. And after that, as a last resort, consider leaving for another church. Which is, I know, a sad and difficult thing to consider.
I have made generalisations in my above statements, and sincerely hope that no-one at Bellevue thinks that I am arrogantly casting judgement from several thousand miles away. My sincere apologies if I have got someone’s hackles up.
May I offer some wisdom from my Brother who was a Sargent in the Army ( and is still an atheist ) : ” I make sure that no-one gossips about me by telling them everything in the first place “.
Perhaps all of us, including and especially those in leadership in the churches, could learn something from him. ???
Comment by Davo — August 28, 2007 @ 11:31 pm
I would appeal to the pastors and others in church leadership to tread lightly and carefully in these waters. Consider carefully if the changes you want to make in your church are mandated by scripture or are simply your personal preference prompted, perhaps, by a desire to make the church more relevant in today’s world or to help the church to grow or reach more people.
If the changes you propose are not mandated by scripture, please don’t push them contrary to the desires of the congregation. This is the sort of thing that causes the church members to feel that their concerns are not being considered or answered. And this may lead some of them to (inadvisably) seek other, more public, forums.
I don’t find internet postings to be particularly different from taking up such matters as these in books and pamphlets for wider distribution. This has been going on for hundreds of years and has contributed greatly to the general education of Christians down through the centuries.
Martin Luther’s 95 theses caused a tremendous stir when folks used a new technology to disseminate Luther’s complaints against the Roman Catholic Church. But most of us see the act of publishing Luther’s Theses as God-driven for the purification of His church and we recognize it as a good thing.
I don’t like the concept of posting internal dirty laundry before the eyes of the world. But our church leaders need to consider carefully if they are in fact responsible for the damage that is being done to their local churches when they try to force their (possibly very sound) visions on a resistant congregation.
Comment by RichardD — November 12, 2007 @ 12:32 pm
I have just one question. Don’t you think Martin Luther would have jumped at the chance to use the internet to get his message out (of the corruption of the church of his day) if it had been available to him? He stood up for truth even though it came at a great price and for that I am very grateful.
Comment by cc — January 19, 2008 @ 9:14 pm
hi to all you out there in cyber land. a few points, we have gone through a controlling leadership nightmare which although 1/2 a decade ago still sees many people carrying deep wounds and I want you all to recogzine that is what they are dealing with. all were amazing real christians and are not easily offended. Our church went from a viberant growing body to a christianize version of animal farm. You people have nothing on us why? because our leadership was the same the same lovely people we had been yoked with for eight years under went major changes pesonality, doctrine , goals, care, love (they just didn’t:( so not only were we all dealing with the stuff i.e. major financal debt, not preaching just motivational junk overlooking sin in the favorite few . despising the elderly, promoting steriliztion, demanding we submit to them and give them control over everything including our children. but also the terrible sense of betrayal that people must feel in divorce. Don’t forget we ARE the body and when something is wrong in one bit we hurt. please stop judging these people and pray that they will be healed and can find a new family (because that is what they have lost you try losing some family and see if it hurts and if you can come out of something like this with no pain the you probably weren’t ‘knit’ in in the first place. We tried to stay for six years as it got worse and worse and should have left years earilerbut kept beleiving that they would change back they didn’t and still haven’t. The sad part we still haven’t found a real body of christ the churches here are rather sick and in need of a revival of holiness and obediance which I would much rather than healings and finance which seems to be the current fashion. So do we go yes to the church that at least preaches Gods word even if they rush home to watch stuff they wouldn’t if Christ was in the room. Everbody just pray and if God has mercy then all these troubles will be much less 2 cron 7:14 If MY people humble them selves and turn from their wicked ways (and seek God’s face) THEN I WILL come and HEAL their land !!! Its a promise and we are the only ones that can do it we are his people we’er the ones God bless you all and may you all seek His will in all that you do including speaking and writing.
Comment by esther — May 20, 2009 @ 8:46 am